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+--- Thread: [split] Real Time Kernels discussion (/Thread-split-Real-Time-Kernels-discussion)
[split] Real Time Kernels discussion - hkphantomgtr - 15-May-2022
FYI, from UbuntuStudio/RealTimeKernel - Community Help Wiki Maybe we can simply focus on UbuntuStudio 22.04.
About RealTime KernelsEarly on in Linux audio production, Real-Time kernels were the only way to get low- and no-latency audio for professional audio applications. However, since Linux 2.6, the real-time stack has been part of the Linux kernel, having a kernel patched with a real-time stack is no longer necessary.
RealTime Kernels Still ExistHowever, there continued to be a demand for real-time kernels with a special patch. A patch does exist to enable process to have real-time process access to any process requesting it. This is good for applicance-like applications, such as audio mixers that use Linux (the Behringer X-series mixers and the Allen & Heath iLive series mixers are good examples). For desktop computer use, THIS IS A BAD IDEA.
Security ImplicationsAll it would take is one malicious process to execute and take advantage of the real-time code to completely lock-out a user from their machine, turning that machine into part of a botnet or other malicious purpose. Real-Time processes have the potential to completely take-over a machine. This is the number one reason Ubuntu does not carry a Real-Time kernel.
Low-Latency KernelThe Low-Latency Kernel included in Ubuntu Studio (and available in the Ubuntu repositories) does not allow such malicious code from locking-out a user from their machine. It does contain other optimizations, such as Preempt-RT being enabled in the kernel configuration, to achieve the lowest possible latency for audio and other applications, while keeping the user interface usable. Latency as low as 0.1 millisecond can and has been achieved using this kernel.
SummaryFor desktop computer usage, using a real-time kernel can cause security nightmares. The low-latency kernel included in Ubuntu Studio is completely capable of low- to no- latency while not enabling malicious processes to lock-out a user from their computer.
RE: [split] Real Time Kernels discussion - agent_kith - 19-May-2022
(15-May-2022, 04:14 PM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: FYI, from UbuntuStudio/RealTimeKernel - Community Help Wiki Maybe we can simply focus on UbuntuStudio 22.04.They are not wrong. It is a bad idea, for desktop (i.e. general use).
About RealTime KernelsEarly on in Linux audio production, Real-Time kernels were the only way to get low- and no-latency audio for professional audio applications. However, since Linux 2.6, the real-time stack has been part of the Linux kernel, having a kernel patched with a real-time stack is no longer necessary.
RealTime Kernels Still ExistHowever, there continued to be a demand for real-time kernels with a special patch. A patch does exist to enable process to have real-time process access to any process requesting it. This is good for applicance-like applications, such as audio mixers that use Linux (the Behringer X-series mixers and the Allen & Heath iLive series mixers are good examples). For desktop computer use, THIS IS A BAD IDEA.
I guess I should put up a clarification in the wiki for this. That Snakeoil is a dedicated music server/player. And should not be used for general computing (e.g. use it to browse banks, install pirated applications, etc).
(15-May-2022, 04:14 PM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: Low-Latency KernelThe Low-Latency Kernel included in Ubuntu Studio (and available in the Ubuntu repositories) does not allow such malicious code from locking-out a user from their machine. It does contain other optimizations, such as Preempt-RT being enabled in the kernel configuration, to achieve the lowest possible latency for audio and other applications, while keeping the user interface usable. Latency as low as 0.1 millisecond can and has been achieved using this kernel.This is the interesting bit... I havn't look at the code for a wihle now, but if memory serves for real "Real time" (RT), Preempt-RT scheduling needs the process to be running as ROOT. Sounds like they have applied modifications to it that doesn't require that. I suspect it wouldn't be true real time, but it might be good enough.
SummaryFor desktop computer usage, using a real-time kernel can cause security nightmares. The low-latency kernel included in Ubuntu Studio is completely capable of low- to no- latency while not enabling malicious processes to lock-out a user from their computer.
Hopefully can get to try studio soon. Been somewhat busy lately.
RE: [split] Real Time Kernels discussion - hkphantomgtr - 15-Feb-2023
After almost a year, finally the RT kernel of Ubuntu 22.04LTS comes.
https://9to5linux.com/canonical-announces-general-availability-of-real-time-ubuntu-kernel
RE: [split] Real Time Kernels discussion - agent_kith - 15-Feb-2023
(15-Feb-2023, 12:31 AM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: After almost a year, finally the RT kernel of Ubuntu 22.04LTS comes.I know there's a reason why I havn't finish the kernel builder. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. Exciting times indeed!!!
https://9to5linux.com/canonical-announces-general-availability-of-real-time-ubuntu-kernel
RE: [split] Real Time Kernels discussion - hkphantomgtr - 15-Feb-2023
Let me try this in these days and see what will happen. Finger crossed.
RE: [split] Real Time Kernels discussion - Snoopy8 - 15-Feb-2023
(15-Feb-2023, 07:57 AM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: Let me try this in these days and see what will happen. Finger crossed.
Given you are way ahead, please confirm that these are the correct steps to get the RT kernel.
Step 1 : sign up to Ubuntu Pro, if required, and login
https://ubuntu.com/pro
Step 2 : Enable Ubuntu Pro on instance. This link shows the steps
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/enable-ubuntu-pro/amp/
The TOKEN to use is in your Ubuntu Pro Dashboard
Step 3: Install RT kernel following steps in link previously mentioned
https://9to5linux.com/canonical-announces-general-availability-of-real-time-ubuntu-kernel
RE: [split] Real Time Kernels discussion - hkphantomgtr - 15-Feb-2023
(15-Feb-2023, 12:57 PM)Snoopy8 Wrote:(15-Feb-2023, 07:57 AM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: Let me try this in these days and see what will happen. Finger crossed.
Given you are way ahead, please confirm that these are the correct steps to get the RT kernel.
Step 1 : sign up to Ubuntu Pro, if required, and login
https://ubuntu.com/pro
Step 2 : Enable Ubuntu Pro on instance. This link shows the steps
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/enable-ubuntu-pro/amp/
The TOKEN to use is in your Ubuntu Pro Dashboard
Step 3: Install RT kernel following steps in link previously mentioned
https://9to5linux.com/canonical-announces-general-availability-of-real-time-ubuntu-kernel
Thanks, pal! I've already got Ubuntu One a/c long time ago. I think I just need to figure out how to get the PRO for free. This morning it was still asking me to pay for PRO.
RE: [split] Real Time Kernels discussion - Snoopy8 - 15-Feb-2023
(15-Feb-2023, 02:54 PM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: Thanks, pal! I've already got Ubuntu One a/c long time ago. I think I just need to figure out how to get the PRO for free. This morning it was still asking me to pay for PRO.I joined today and believe it is free for users with 5 or less machines.
RE: [split] Real Time Kernels discussion - hkphantomgtr - 15-Feb-2023
(15-Feb-2023, 03:38 PM)Snoopy8 Wrote:(15-Feb-2023, 02:54 PM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: Thanks, pal! I've already got Ubuntu One a/c long time ago. I think I just need to figure out how to get the PRO for free. This morning it was still asking me to pay for PRO.I joined today and believe it is free for users with 5 or less machines.
Cool. Did you install the RT kernel? Or still using your custom kernel?
RE: [split] Real Time Kernels discussion - Snoopy8 - 16-Feb-2023
(15-Feb-2023, 07:30 PM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: Cool. Did you install the RT kernel? Or still using your custom kernel?I will install 22.04 and RT Kernel may be next week.