Snakeoil Forums
Snakeoil Firmware 1.2.2 Testing Builds - Printable Version

+- Snakeoil Forums (https://forums.snakeoil-os.net)
+-- Forum: Snakeoil Testers (https://forums.snakeoil-os.net/Forum-Snakeoil-Testers)
+--- Forum: Test Builds (https://forums.snakeoil-os.net/Forum-Test-Builds)
+--- Thread: Snakeoil Firmware 1.2.2 Testing Builds (/Thread-Snakeoil-Firmware-1-2-2-Testing-Builds)

Pages: 1 2

Snakeoil Firmware 1.2.2 Testing Builds - agent_kith - 31-Oct-2021

This is an early alpha release, I would recommend you test this in a virtual machine, or on a second SSD. I'm testing this on the Raspberry Pi 4 (8GB) myself as I hope that's going to be my primary rig in the future.

There are still some issues with this release (1.2.2.0), namely:
  1. Translations is incomplete for Non English editions, this will be fixed soonish
  2. Snakeoil RestAPI can't seem to terminate properly in some cases (this is because sometimes it can't stop the players it started). Hopefully I can make the exit even more graceful before.
  3. PHP is still enabled on the web server. This is really just to make sure folks can fall back to the old editions if needed
  4. Display quirks here and there after updating to bootstrap 5.
Other notes:
  1. Always remember to do a backup of your existing configuration before proceeding. As mentioned previously, the backup only back up the Snakeoil configuration, but that's OK.
  2. There may be some caching issues after the upgrade. Do a force reload, or clear any old browser cache on your Snakeoil PC's IP if you have problems.

.fw   snakeoil-1.2.2.0-armv7l.fw (Size: 39.42 MB / Downloads: 1)
.fw   snakeoil-1.2.2.0-x86_64.fw (Size: 41.43 MB / Downloads: 10)

Over the next few days/weeks I'm going to finish up on all the issues, and then release this so I can start work on the Kernel builder. Best laid plans of mice and men, it better goes to plan! LOL

RE: Snakeoil Firmware 1.2.2 Testing Builds - Snoopy8 - 04-Nov-2021

[Image: Alpha1.jpg]
Some initial feedback  (sorry been busy last few days).
  1. Upload firmware, no issues, upgraded from 1.2.1 on Intel NUC.  Home, ? not working on top right corner.
  2. Networking OK
  3. On system, poor contrast in colours (see above), buttons appear to be ok, but not tested systematically
  4. Browse.  Buttons at bottom lose icon before word, when firefox on laptop not in full screen mode (e.g. 2 Ram buttons). + Ram makes sense, but tick ram does not. + folder, +file sort of make sense as does delete. Need to rethink buttons, not intuitive enough?  Quick test of load a track to Ram and can play music
  5. SnakeOil.  Not sure I like 2 layer approach, having to click another icon to get to say system services, and then have to double click back to Dashboard. 
  6. Music player needs more work; initial impression is that it has gone backwards.  Suggest putting legend up page, quite easy to miss.
    mympd working with MPd 0.22.9 No check on SQ
    plus, minus buttons, overlap with available music players
    Confused by "Selected Software to Start";  are you suggesting that this is what we should start as a player?  Confusing that I can add Mpd and LMS at the same time?  There are no rules behind it. I need to spend more time testing the players.
On Samsung phone, quick test appears ok.  Dashboard button from each section needs to take user to the top of page (currently, seeing the bottom).  In SnakeOil "tab", no description e.g seeing the words SNAKEOIL_SERVICES.INTRO

I am not thrilled on the looks and not convinced that the navigation is better, will post more when I am satisfied that functionality is all there.

Overall, a good start, at least we have something to play with.  Good that the technology behind is up to date. I have yet to find a compelling reason to go back to 1.2.1 (fingers crossed!).

RE: Snakeoil Firmware 1.2.2 Testing Builds - agent_kith - 04-Nov-2021

(04-Nov-2021, 12:13 PM)Snoopy8 Wrote:
  • On system, poor contrast in colours (see above), buttons appear to be ok, but not tested systematically
The blue and blur themes still have some issues. Switch to light/dark/cosmic where the colour schemes are better. Will fix Blue on official release.
 
(04-Nov-2021, 12:13 PM)Snoopy8 Wrote:
  • Browse.  Buttons at bottom lose icon before word, when firefox on laptop not in full screen mode (e.g. 2 Ram buttons). + Ram makes sense, but tick ram does not. + folder, +file sort of make sense as does delete. Need to rethink buttons, not intuitive enough?  Quick test of load a track to Ram and can play music
Agreed. Create a ticket here so I don't lose track of this.
(04-Nov-2021, 12:13 PM)Snoopy8 Wrote:
  • SnakeOil.  Not sure I like 2 layer approach, having to click another icon to get to say system services, and then have to double click back to Dashboard. 
Going to add the side navigation buttons back. That way it will make navigation easier. As for the sub-snakeoil menus. I'm thinking of having "Snakeoil - kernel", "Snakeoil - services", "Snakeoil-XXX" from the dashboard. That way users can swap in/out between them easily. What do you think?
(04-Nov-2021, 12:13 PM)Snoopy8 Wrote:
  • Music player needs more work; initial impression is that it has gone backwards.  Suggest putting legend up page, quite easy to miss.
    mympd working with MPd 0.22.9 No check on SQ
    plus, minus buttons, overlap with available music players
    Confused by "Selected Software to Start";  are you suggesting that this is what we should start as a player?  Confusing that I can add Mpd and LMS at the same time?  There are no rules behind it. I need to spend more time testing the players.
What do you mean plus/minus overlap with available players? Can you do a screenshot? As for running LMS+MPD, that is by design. This wasn't possible before, but now it can. It wouldn't make much sense for 99% of the users out there, but then there may be somebody out there who wants to run LMS with MPD on one machine, and have a second player running Squeezelite running on another computer/Pi somewhere. This way the library resides on one machine, play out via MPD, and a remote Squeezelite can also play the same music library.

This new system kind of opens up for more powerful uses. Whereas in the old days, when you select LMS, you can only select Squeezelite and nothing else. This new system just makes it more flexible. The downside is new users who are completely new to Linux world will have no idea what needs to be there. Hence there is a panel on the top right (content yet to to be finished) that will have some help text, as well as links to the Wiki.

There are some rules, e.g. you cannot run 2 different versions of MPD. But the system should be in place to add more refinements. Unsure whether to lock it down like old, or make it open to be easier to manage. It's kind of one or the other, as I don't want to complicate matters with basic/advanced modes.
(04-Nov-2021, 12:13 PM)Snoopy8 Wrote: On Samsung phone, quick test appears ok.  Dashboard button from each section needs to take user to the top of page (currently, seeing the bottom).  In SnakeOil "tab", no description e.g seeing the words SNAKEOIL_SERVICES.INTRO
Will fix the translations soon (currently working on this). Have created a ticket to make sure returning to the dashboard will go to the top of the page.
(04-Nov-2021, 12:13 PM)Snoopy8 Wrote: I am not thrilled on the looks and not convinced that the navigation is better, will post more when I am satisfied that functionality is all there.

Overall, a good start, at least we have something to play with.  Good that the technology behind is up to date. I have yet to find a compelling reason to go back to 1.2.1 (fingers crossed!).
Hopefully navigation will improve with the return of the side bar. Will also try and see if I can improve the dashboard to give it a "wow" kind of first impression. Right now just not getting that. I want the tiles to be bigger than before (make this more like an application, when compared to " admin portal" of old)... But when something is big, it's pretty difficult to make it pretty.

RE: Snakeoil Firmware 1.2.2 Testing Builds - Snoopy8 - 05-Nov-2021

Been using the UI on the phone, and it does not feel right.  There is lot of unused space and there is always the need to scroll down to access the buttons.  Feels clunky, like it was built for a desktop (which it is).  Perhaps you need to re-think the design approach, build it to look simple and easy to use for the phone and "upscale" for the desktop. 

The following is an app for a Zidoo media player, which I am using as an example.
[Image: UI1.jpg]

The front screen on the left is simple and uses the whole screen. Simple colours.  Currently, SO is a series of buttons which need to scroll down, real estate on right largely wasted.  Clicking on file explorer brings the middle screen.  It is simple, with an icon and function.  Clicking on Quick Settings brings up a complex set of settings, a few pages deep. 

[Image: Screenshots-2021-11-05-15-14-26.png]
The above is the big display (TV) screenshot of the same settings on the phone screen.  There are lots of settings and many pages.  But it does not look difficult to navigate (even though the settings are complex).  Again, it uses an icon with a function.  Perhaps this is another way to approach the desktop UI?

Are all these ideas too late for this UI build?  And if all of this is too hard and takes too much effort & time to rebuild, then please park it.

p/s +/- problem previously reported seems to have gone away with a refresh.

RE: Snakeoil Firmware 1.2.2 Testing Builds - agent_kith - 06-Nov-2021

(05-Nov-2021, 05:54 PM)Snoopy8 Wrote: Are all these ideas too late for this UI build?  And if all of this is too hard and takes too much effort & time to rebuild, then please park it.
In theory no, but practical wise probably yes. Once the rough kinks are out, I intend to focus on kernel builder (that's another massive chunk of work). And while doing that, do incremental polish to the UI over time.

Just need to adjust the widths to fit better on smaller screens. The widgets I'm using (Nebular) is indeed "fatter" than usual (compared to the example you used). And the nebular controls are indeed designed more for tablets or big phones than mobiles... Having said that, there are extra things build in that will make it work well on smaller screens also. Done right, the same logic/code will look equally functional on a desktop computer, to a tablet, to a phablet, down to a mobile phone.

RE: Snakeoil Firmware 1.2.2 Testing Builds - Snoopy8 - 06-Nov-2021

(06-Nov-2021, 07:52 AM)agent_kith Wrote:
(06-Nov-2021, 07:52 AM)agent_kith Wrote: Just need to adjust the widths to fit better on smaller screens. The widgets I'm using (Nebular) is indeed "fatter" than usual (compared to the example you used).
If possible, please reduce the "fat" because it contributes to a look and feel that is chunky, with wasted space, uneven boxes. And sometimes requiring unnecessary scroll down to end of page. 

Using the PC
  • ** Reduce height of box containing title, to reduce height of overall page **
  • In Dashboard, reduce Quotes height, smaller icons, SnakeOil version box same height as bottom of icons
  • In Networking, empty space below Network Interfaces.  And make the 2 boxes equal height
  • In Disk/NAS, Unused partitions, spread devices to right?  In mount point configuration, spread mount options and delete button right. ** Extend column width of file system ** That way all boxes are equal width
  • In System, reduce spacing between boxes, between buttons, make user account and customisations same height.  ** buttons appear ok;  error message after shutdown **
  • In Browse, lots of wasted space below folders, reduce need to scroll down pages. ** never got playlist working, but this is not a UI issue **
  • Side navigation will help with SnakeOil
  • ** In Snakeoil/
  • Will come back on Music Player, not happy with current layout and usage, but there is lots of blank space.
Using phone
  • In Dashboard, less space between buttons, less space at bottom of SO Version
  • In Networking, empty space below Network Interfaces. 
  • In System, reduce spacing between buttons
  • In Browse, wasted space below folders
  • Will come back on Music Player
Prefer buttons at bottom of each screen to be the same colour.

** Repeating earlier post, home and help buttons on top right not working **
Just need to adjust the widths to fit better on smaller screens. The widgets I'm using (Nebular) is indeed "fatter" than usual (compared to the example you used).
If possible, please reduce the "fat" because it contributes to a look and feel that is chunky, with wasted space, uneven boxes. And sometimes requiring unnecessary scroll down to end of page. 

Using the PC
  • ** Reduce height of box containing title, to reduce height of overall page **
  • In Dashboard, reduce Quotes height, smaller icons, SnakeOil version box same height as bottom of icons
  • In Networking, empty space below Network Interfaces.  And make the 2 boxes equal height
  • In Disk/NAS, Unused partitions, spread devices to right?  In mount point configuration, spread mount options and delete button right. ** Extend column width of file system ** That way all boxes are equal width
  • In System, reduce spacing between boxes, between buttons, make user account and customisations same height.  ** buttons appear ok;  error message after shutdown **
  • In Browse, lots of wasted space below folders, reduce need to scroll down pages. ** never got playlist working, but this is not a UI issue **
  • Side navigation will help with SnakeOil
  • ** In Snakeoil / Hardware, need to re-arrange boxes to even out height of page; 3 have fixed heights, whereas Process Priority depends on number of processes **
  • Will come back on Music Player, not happy with current layout and usage, but there is lots of blank space.
Using phone
  • In Dashboard, less space between buttons, less space at bottom of SO Version
  • In Networking, empty space below Network Interfaces. 
  • In System, reduce spacing between buttons
  • In Browse, wasted space below folders
  • Will come back on Music Player
Prefer buttons at bottom of each screen to be the same colour.

** Repeating earlier post, home and help buttons on top right not working **

RE: Snakeoil Firmware 1.2.2 Testing Builds - agent_kith - 06-Nov-2021

(06-Nov-2021, 11:36 AM)Snoopy8 Wrote: If possible, please reduce the "fat" because it contributes to a look and feel that is chunky, with wasted space, uneven boxes. And sometimes requiring unnecessary scroll down to end of page. 
Just finished fixing up the translations. Gonna work on your list next. Stay tuned Thumbs Up.

RE: Snakeoil Firmware 1.2.2 Testing Builds - Snoopy8 - 07-Nov-2021

Have added to previous post.

Hope to see others post their thoughts on how to improve UI.

RE: Snakeoil Firmware 1.2.2 Testing Builds - Snoopy8 - 07-Nov-2021

The Music Player "tab".  Log not working.  Unable to use Upmpdcli because it is selects both server and player simultaneously.

The " tab" is an inefficient use of space. 
  • Does Information require such a long blurb?
  • Can Software and OK be combined as one?
  • Rather than use the +/- to add a remove servers and players, suggest one box with columns, with a user able to pick and select the servers and players.  My reservation is that it may look too complex.  Or revert back to old layout?
** Alternatively, have a simple music setup and keep the existing for advanced users. For simple setup, provide 2 options.  Option 1 of LMS + Squeezelite to access local music and streaming, Option 2 using MPD. **

RE: Snakeoil Firmware 1.2.2 Testing Builds - agent_kith - 08-Nov-2021

(07-Nov-2021, 05:27 PM)Snoopy8 Wrote: The Music Player "tab".  Log not working.  Unable to use Upmpdcli because it is selects both server and player simultaneously.

The " tab" is an inefficient use of space. 
  • Does Information require such a long blurb?
  • Can Software and OK be combined as one?
  • Rather than use the +/- to add a remove servers and players, suggest one box with columns, with a user able to pick and select the servers and players.  My reservation is that it may look too complex.  Or revert back to old layout?
What do you mean tab is inefficient use of space? Do you mean the zones? or the flip between running software & output devices?

The logs should say "Coming soon"? Is that text showing up in your setup?

Unfortunately, the old layout with fixed player combinations can't do what most people want these days. The problem is really the backend, not the webapp. De-coupling everything and just run a list of software is more scalable. This is an alpha build, basically to get everything "linked and hooked up". Once the big things are working, the GUI will be cleaned up to be more intuitive. Already have some ideas how to clean this up.

As for that information blob, personally I do not read that at all, because I am well aware of what the players are capable of, and how to set it up. Also, more importantly what works with each other.

However, most users today only want to spend 10 seconds to use something, if the information is not presented to them now, they will  claim the software isn't working. This is why that information panel is so prominent, and it will link back to the Wiki with even more information (in the future). Despite all this, I'm sure 95% of these same folks will not bother to read it anyway. So, shrug . LOL LOL LOL

Future versions of Snakeoil will have the option to disable the blob, and also the audiophile quotes.

Combining the OK and software information as one is possible. May do that for the small screens. Not sure need that for bigger screens though?
 
(07-Nov-2021, 05:27 PM)Snoopy8 Wrote: ** Alternatively, have a simple music setup and keep the existing for advanced users. For simple setup, provide 2 options.  Option 1 of LMS + Squeezelite to access local music and streaming, Option 2 using MPD. **
That will be handled in the wizard mode (Coming soon). Users can also use the wizard to switch between this two.

That remind me. On a fresh setup, the LMS actually comes un-configured. I forgot to include a basic setup for LMS that pre-sets everything (path to playlist, music library). Creating a ticket before I forget. Something to consider in a future future -  if I should do this in the wizard too, to allow user the option to play DSD natively, or transcoded to PCM.

I think that 1.2.2 features has creped up more than expected. Big Grin Just kept adding things as I went along. But hopefully it'll all be good in the long term.

Have made some changes on the GUI. Probably don't have the time to upload the code to demo site this morning, but will hopefully do this by mid week.

Don't really want to promise anything, but hopefully you and others can trust me.. Smile When 1.2.2 is released, the GUI will definitely be more usable compared to before. The whole design is ultimately geared towards a future goal. Something which I will announce, when the kernel builder is done..  i.e.:
 1.2.3+: Kernel builder
 1.2.x: "new thing"

The "new thing" is just a simple frustration I have. It's not really Snakeoil per se, but it's something that has always bothered me...
Of course, to start on that new thing, I have to have a working kernel builder, and before that I have to finish 1.2.2 first Think. So eventually I will have to release 1.2.2 so can continue on the other massive stuffs.

I planned for 2 more alphas and 3 betas. So this alpha is still at it's infancy.

The new job times is working well - I have around 2 hours before work, and 1 hours after. That gave me max 3 hours of Snakeoil work/support on weekdays. That is, if I don't have family commitments, or other stuffs I need to work on. All things considered, I'm pretty happy with this arrangement. Just hope I can get an extension or a full role after my 6 months contract! Big Grin

BTW, there will be a long Christmas break coming soon, really looking forward to use that time to work on this (With what's going on I'm not going to be on a holiday)...