SQ difference - Raspberry Pi vs x86_64?

SQ difference - Raspberry Pi vs x86_64? - Printable Version

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RE: SQ difference - Raspberry Pi vs x86_64? - skel - 29-Jan-2025

(28-Jan-2025, 08:26 AM)Snoopy8 Wrote:
(27-Jan-2025, 10:08 PM)skel Wrote: I' am a great fan of the x86_64 machines of Shuttle. Just bought the DS50U (CPU Intel Celeron 7305, 250 Euro) which had much better SQ than the more faster machine DS50U3 with i3 CPU.
Interesting... . Have you tried the Pi5, which is much cheaper?

(27-Jan-2025, 10:08 PM)skel Wrote: Just compared it to a commercial product for 11000 Euros (K41 from Antipodes Audio) and my machine sound clear better with SO 1.4, Ubuntu 24.04 Server RT-kernel and Minimserver or Lyrionmusicserver with UPnP Bridge.
My Pi5 with Ubuntu 22.04 and SO1.3 beat the Antipodes S30, to my ears. But, my friend still preferred the S30 because it was closer to what he was used to.

I don't have a Pi5,but tried Pi3 and Pi4 some years ago. Found x86 always much better.

RE: SQ difference - Raspberry Pi vs x86_64? - Snoopy8 - 29-Jan-2025

(29-Jan-2025, 06:33 AM)skel Wrote: I don't have a Pi5,but tried Pi3 and Pi4 some years ago. Found x86 always much better.

Volumio, Moode etc. are not as good as SnakeOil on Pi5, Pi4, so not surprised that you prefer x86 with SO.

skel - skel - 29-Jan-2025

(29-Jan-2025, 07:42 AM)Snoopy8 Wrote:
(29-Jan-2025, 06:33 AM)skel Wrote: I don't have a Pi5,but tried Pi3 and Pi4 some years ago. Found x86 always much better.
Volumio, Moode etc. are not as good as SnakeOil on Pi5, Pi4, so not surprised that you prefer x86 with SO.

That's true, but I also compared SO on PI against x86. May also better (SQ has more body and dynamic and is also cleaner) because of the power for my PC comes direct from the car battery vs linear DC/DC IC for the PIs. I have different SSDs for OS (SATA) and music (NVMe) as well in my PC and very fast RAM.

RE: SQ difference - Raspberry Pi vs x86_64? - Snoopy8 - 06-Feb-2025

(28-Jan-2025, 10:18 AM)agent_kith Wrote: I'm hoping somewhere/someone will build a dedicated audio board with support for CM5. If properly designed and implemented it could beat x86_64 in theory (This is more a guess though).
.....
Perhaps some audio maker can donate a decent CM5 based board for me to play with and I can attempt to see what tweaks are available in software.

I have yet to come across a CM5 based audio player.

There is a CM5 development kit
https://au.element14.com/raspberry-pi/sc1755/cm5-development-kit-eu/dp/4575935
(No idea of differences between EU, US, UK etc versions)
Trying to understand why the CM5 is better than the Pi5. Is the limitation the existing I/O board? And should be replaced by a dedicated audiophile board?

RE: SQ difference - Raspberry Pi vs x86_64? - hkphantomgtr - 09-Apr-2025

Well, FYI, if one would like to run Roon Server in SO, Roon Server requires a x86_64 CPU. But Roon Bridge embraces both x86_64 and arm CPUs. Shy

RE: SQ difference - Raspberry Pi vs x86_64? - agent_kith - 09-Apr-2025

(06-Feb-2025, 08:46 AM)Snoopy8 Wrote: I have yet to come across a CM5 based audio player.

There is a CM5 development kit
https://au.element14.com/raspberry-pi/sc1755/cm5-development-kit-eu/dp/4575935
(No idea of differences between EU, US, UK etc versions)
Trying to understand why the CM5 is better than the Pi5. Is the limitation the existing I/O board? And should be replaced by a dedicated audiophile board?

A CM4 audio player may well be hot swappable to CM5 as the pin-outs are largely compatible.

A RPi5 is an all-in-one general purpose computer. And a CM5 is more like a brain, it needs to be part of another board to become a compute unit. So if we a board that's specifically designed for audio, adding a CM5 to this board could well make it sing (as the CPU on the CM5 is a lot faster than the CM4 CPU)

RE: SQ difference - Raspberry Pi vs x86_64? - Snoopy8 - 14-May-2025

(25-Jan-2025, 11:28 AM)Snoopy8 Wrote: NUC is slightly ahead of the Pi5 but had to look for it; in other words, the SQ difference is not night and day,

Was not expecting this, but SO 1.4.3 has opened up a gap between the NUC and Pi5. The NUC has more heft and warmth.

Both are using Ubuntu 24.04, Ubuntu real time kernel with the same CPUset and IRQ tweaks and powered by Gieseler linear power supplies. Running LMS 9.0.2, with Squeezelite V2 on separate NUC.

RE: SQ difference - Raspberry Pi vs x86_64? - hkphantomgtr - 14-May-2025

(14-May-2025, 08:22 AM)Snoopy8 Wrote:
(25-Jan-2025, 11:28 AM)Snoopy8 Wrote: NUC is slightly ahead of the Pi5 but had to look for it; in other words, the SQ difference is not night and day,
Was not expecting this, but SO 1.4.3 has opened up a gap between the NUC and Pi5. The NUC has more heft and warmth.

Both are using Ubuntu 24.04, Ubuntu real time kernel with the same CPUset and IRQ tweaks and powered by Gieseler linear power supplies. Running LMS 9.0.2, with Squeezelite V2 on separate NUC.

FYI, just an objective finding sharing. In past, I always found NUC makes better sound than Pi4B (with TCXO clock), by a little bit. In recent month I've acquired a 1) Pi5 and a 2) Pi5 with 10M OCXO clock. Thru the USB output, my 2 Pi 5 gives totally different sound. In my comparison, stock Pi 5 << NUC << 10M clocked Pi 5. (the 10M clock hat is right above the capacitor filter hat)

The setup in that pic is without NVMe hat (music storage), I just didn't take a pic when with NVMe hat. I've powered the Pi5 by batteries or LPS, with or without clock (ie. 2 Pi5, as the clock can't be detached). The sound of Pi5 with 10M clock is totally different. Of course, I believe that's the power of 10M clock.

Just my 2 cents. Shy

RE: SQ difference - Raspberry Pi vs x86_64? - Snoopy8 - 14-May-2025

@hkphantomgtr agree the Pi5 is better than the Pi4. And the gap between the NUC and Pi5 is about the same. My Pi5 is still using microSD and not likely to add a NVME/SSD

Have not played with clocks for the NUC. However, am using a Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker as well as a Renolabs Ethernet switch with OCXO clock. While those improvements are good, they cannot match what SO can deliver...

RE: SQ difference - Raspberry Pi vs x86_64? - hkphantomgtr - 14-May-2025

(14-May-2025, 12:59 PM)Snoopy8 Wrote: @hkphantomgtr agree the Pi5 is better than the Pi4. And the gap between the NUC and Pi5 is about the same. My Pi5 is still using microSD and not likely to add a NVME/SSD

Have not played with clocks for the NUC. However, am using a Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker as well as a Renolabs Ethernet switch with OCXO clock. While those improvements are good, they cannot match what SO can deliver...

I'm using microSD for OS, and NVMe for storage only. Clock for NUC..... I didn't hear about such service yet, though I'm sure that will be a great improvement.

The OCXO clock for Pi5 replaced 3 clocks on the Pi5, viz 1 for CPU, 1 for LAN, and 1 for USB. That really matters.

And similarly to your case, my NUC or Pi5 USB output to a reclocker (Denafrips GAIA), too. And it will output i2s to my DAC. One of the reason I chose that re-clocker is, there are 2 OCXO clocks inside, 1 is for 44.1kHz and its multiples, the other 1 is for 48kHz and its multiples.